An online community for people living in and around Oak Park, Illinois.
Porn In The Oak Park Library!
Shocking, but true. And, in the kids' section, no less.
My wife and two little girls frequent the Oak Park Library, at least once or twice a week. They spend most of their time on the first floor kids' section. They color, read books and play with the computers.
Well, yesterday, they were there as usual and a young boy of around 11 or 12 years old wandered in, sat at a computer and proceeded to pull up hard core porn websites. All in full view of the parents, librarians and worse, the children. Not only were all the parents present horrified that a child would do this but exponentially worse is that they were informed by the librarian that our library network does not have filters to prevent something like this from happening. The librarian proceeded to tell the boy that he couldn't be in the kids' section and had to move up to the adult area of the library - not that he wasn't allowed to view that material on public machines.
The only imaginable argument I could imagine from anyone why a public, tax-supported network would not be filtered is for freedom of speech/access. I don't buy it. The internet is a dark and dingy place and our children should not be exposed to this in our public library. It is one thing to have no filters on the adult section of the library (adult as in not child-section not as in adult/porn) but not having them in the kids' section is a travesty and one that we as parents should rally to have changed.
Does anyone have any advice on how we can take this further? Whom should we ping to ensure the youth of our children is preserved as long as possible? LHOP is our first stop to help rally a groundswell. I'm not much of an activist, but I have to draw the line somewhere.
Tags: library
Views: 100
Replies to This Discussion
-
Your HostPermalink Reply by Becca on -
First let me say that I'm a big supporter of the library, but I'm surprised there aren't filters on the Web browsers. I always assumed there were.
-
Permalink Reply by w.byron reaves on -
i'm shocked.
1. i have seen the librarians handle some pretty rough situations with a firm hand.
2. i get bored working from home sometimes and enjoy the big windows and free wifi. and i know EVERY TIME i join the network on my laptop, i have to promise not to surf porn or do anything bad. so why you could use a OPPL computer to look at porn boggles my mind.
3. send an email to the board of directors. board@oppl.org
4. send an email to Executive Director of OPPL, Deirdre Brennan, dbrennan@oppl.org
5. the maze is way less family friendly.
6. and i think we can all send a link to this to Children's Services Manager, Heather McCammond-Watts, hmwatts@oppl.org
-
Permalink Reply by Paul M. on -
Thanks Byron, all good advice. I guess I wouldn't be so vigilant about it if this didn't happen in the little kids section. Really is horrifying.
w.byron reaves said:
i'm shocked.
1. i have seen the librarians handle some pretty rough situations with a firm hand.
2. i get bored working from home sometimes and enjoy the big windows and free wifi. and i know EVERY TIME i join the network on my laptop, i have to promise not to surf porn or do anything bad. so why you could use a OPPL computer to look at porn boggles my mind.
3. send an email to the board of directors. board@oppl.org
4. send an email to Executive Director of OPPL, Deirdre Brennan, dbrennan@oppl.org
5. the maze is way less family friendly.
6. and i think we can all send a link to this to Children's Services Manager, Heather McCammond-Watts, hmwatts@oppl.org
-
Permalink Reply by w.byron reaves on
-
dood.
i have already sent emails.
our children should always find the library as cool as we did.
and you know what else,
this just enforces the fact WE NEED PARENTS.
-
Permalink Reply by Dee Brennan on -
Hi everyone, thanks for the opportunity to respond and discuss this important and complicated issue.
First of all, let me say that our librarian, Andy, who spoke to the Marobella family, told me in an email that he did tell the child who was looking at pornography that it was a violation of our policy to do so and that he had to stop. He also told him that he was too old (Andy verified that he was 13) to actually be in the children's section so he did leave for the young adult area on the second floor. Sorry for any misunderstanding on this point.
As far as the larger issue goes - it is true we do not have filters. Filtering software has not been found to be as effective in blocking sites as one might think. We prefer to take the path of having very clear computer and internet use policies and relying upon our librarians to enforce the policies. That being said, we obviously don't and can't know about everything that people do or look at in the library.
This is an intellection freedom issue and a freedom of access issue. It's certainly not a new issue either - I've been a librarian for 30 years and over time have talked with parents and kids about books with controversial content or images. The internet has definitely brought an incredibly huge world of information into our libraries and some of it is not what we would choose. It's just not feasible to keep all the good and keep out all the bad - even assuming that we all agreed on what is good and what is bad.
Sorry to go on and on! I hope this is helpful in explaining the library's policies and general approach. I am very happy to discuss this further here or in person as well.
Thanks for your interest and your support of our library.
-
PioneerPermalink Reply by Amanda on -
I have to say I support the library on the filtering/access issue. Thanks for such a great response, Dee.
Dee Brennan said:
Hi everyone, thanks for the opportunity to respond and discuss this important and complicated issue.
First of all, let me say that our librarian, Andy, who spoke to the Marobella family, told me in an email that he did tell the child who was looking at pornography that it was a violation of our policy to do so and that he had to stop. He also told him that he was too old (Andy verified that he was 13) to actually be in the children's section so he did leave for the young adult area on the second floor. Sorry for any misunderstanding on this point.
As far as the larger issue goes - it is true we do not have filters. Filtering software has not been found to be as effective in blocking sites as one might think. We prefer to take the path of having very clear computer and internet use policies and relying upon our librarians to enforce the policies. That being said, we obviously don't and can't know about everything that people do or look at in the library.
This is an intellection freedom issue and a freedom of access issue. It's certainly not a new issue either - I've been a librarian for 30 years and over time have talked with parents and kids about books with controversial content or images. The internet has definitely brought an incredibly huge world of information into our libraries and some of it is not what we would choose. It's just not feasible to keep all the good and keep out all the bad - even assuming that we all agreed on what is good and what is bad.
Sorry to go on and on! I hope this is helpful in explaining the library's policies and general approach. I am very happy to discuss this further here or in person as well.
Thanks for your interest and your support of our library.
-
Permalink Reply by Rob A. on -
I completely support OPPL in this case.
I work in IT. I have worked with NetNanny to improve their software. I have administered WebSense. I have broken around countless other filtering products from companies like Cisco and Juniper. The library is right: they're crap. Do you block all of blogger.com or every ning community, just because a few porn sites might pop up in their networks (and they do, by the hour)? The only thing they're truly good for is logging access for later review.
When the library limits what we can view, it's censorship. I don't support that.
Dee Brennan said:Hi everyone, thanks for the opportunity to respond and discuss this important and complicated issue.
First of all, let me say that our librarian, Andy, who spoke to the Marobella family, told me in an email that he did tell the child who was looking at pornography that it was a violation of our policy to do so and that he had to stop. He also told him that he was too old (Andy verified that he was 13) to actually be in the children's section so he did leave for the young adult area on the second floor. Sorry for any misunderstanding on this point.
As far as the larger issue goes - it is true we do not have filters. Filtering software has not been found to be as effective in blocking sites as one might think. We prefer to take the path of having very clear computer and internet use policies and relying upon our librarians to enforce the policies. That being said, we obviously don't and can't know about everything that people do or look at in the library.
This is an intellection freedom issue and a freedom of access issue. It's certainly not a new issue either - I've been a librarian for 30 years and over time have talked with parents and kids about books with controversial content or images. The internet has definitely brought an incredibly huge world of information into our libraries and some of it is not what we would choose. It's just not feasible to keep all the good and keep out all the bad - even assuming that we all agreed on what is good and what is bad.
Sorry to go on and on! I hope this is helpful in explaining the library's policies and general approach. I am very happy to discuss this further here or in person as well.
Thanks for your interest and your support of our library.
-
Permalink Reply by Heather on -
As the head of the Children's Department, I share this family's concern about the well-being of our Oak Park children while in the library. Our staff makes every effort to make the library as safe, child-focused, and welcoming as possible. Thankfully, these types of incidents are rare.
I'm glad you raised this issue, because parents need to be aware and concerned so that they monitor their children and their teens alike and talk to them about these issues. Rest assured, viewing pornography is not acceptable use of our computers, and we don't allow it just as we don't allow other harmful behaviors such as swearing or fighting in the Children's Room. Please see www.oppl.org for our computer "Acceptable Use" policies. --Heather McCammond-Watts, Manager of Children's Services at OPPL
-
Permalink Reply by Paul M. on
-
Everyone,
Thank you so much for the lively discussion and debate regarding this important issue. Especially, our library officials, Dee and Heather - thank you for your quick and thoughtful responses, the power of social media coming through.
First, I'd like to say that we think the people at the library do an amazing job and are huge advocates of the library here in Oak Park. In fact, it was an important factor as to why we moved here almost 4-years ago. We are always impressed with the innovation and the professionalism of the staff. Per my wife, Andy also handled the situation the best he could given the parameters of the library rules - so no knock on him for how it went down, that day.
This topic we are discussing goes beyond Oak Park. It doesn't take long for one on Google to find the expanse and complexity of this topic all the way to the Federal-level and dividing states and even librarians on the issue. Some libraries have implemented filtering software and some haven't. And, if I read this right, it seems the Feds have made filtering software mandatory for libraries that accept Federal funding for computers, so clearly they see the issue as important. It is a hot-button topic that raises Constitutional questions of freedom of access, information and even free speech in some regards.
We understand the rational argument of censorship, government intervention and morality-compassing and on and on. And, with that said, I can tell you that I've been called many things but a prude has never been one of them - this issue wouldn't ever have been on my radar if my 6-year old wasn't in the proximity of a hard core porn act in clear view for her to see. As a parent, the specter of having to explain to her what that 'lady is doing to that man' supersedes my concerns about censorship. Sorry, but that is how I feel and frankly how many of the parents I've spoken with since this happened. In fact, the unscientific poll we've taken since then has indicated that most parents 'assumed' the library had filters and can't understand why it wouldn't - ESPECIALLY in the kids' area. These are Oak Park taxpayers, educated, techno-savvy, some that also work in IT people that are shocked, horrified and terrified of that fact.
But that's what makes our Country great - that we are able to maintain our own opinions and act accordingly. I am sure that our library officials have spent many hours, conferences and meetings discussing this topic and have made their professional decision to not go that route - I respect that, but do not agree with it, again, as it relates to the kid's section of the library.
I am not the militant, activist or protester-type of citizen and therefore this is where it ends for me/us. I want to thank Becca for curating LHOP that gives us as taxpayers a place where we can voice our concerns and have a healthy dialog with the officials and executives of our Village.
Happy New Year.
-
Permalink Reply by Laura Rizzardini on -
That's good to hear. Children and youth need safe places to learn and read. I live near Brooks Middle School; walking by early in the morning, I have often heard pre-teens discussing topics on the sidewalk that are shocking to me. I've heard teens outside the main library building on Lake Street threatening one another. Worse, I own a condominium in a building where pre-teens are overtly sexist.
Free speech is a wonderful right and opportunity; we have so much more of now due to the web. It's important that we teach children how to use it responsibly. Just as intellectual property right policies and laws are evolving, so must our cultural norms about censorship when it concerns vulnerable citizens.
It's just as important an issue as free speech because pornography is a billion dollar industry that exploits women and children. Acceptance of it perpetuates human trafficking and predatory behavior towards women and children on the street and sexual harassment of women on the job. Sexual predators have more opportunities to communicate and organize on the web; law enforcement does not have the funds to find or prosecute them all.
I conducted a survey in 2005 about Playboy Magazine in the Oak Lawn, Illinois public library on behalf of a resident with small children. I've uploaded a copy here for whomever would like to read it. I admire our Oak Park librarians for protecting both free speech and children in the library, but I think the scope of this issue is larger than the library; it's a community-wide problem.
Heather said:As the head of the Children's Department, I share this family's concern about the well-being of our Oak Park children while in the library. Our staff makes every effort to make the library as safe, child-focused, and welcoming as possible. Thankfully, these types of incidents are rare.
I'm glad you raised this issue, because parents need to be aware and concerned so that they monitor their children and their teens alike and talk to them about these issues. Rest assured, viewing pornography is not acceptable use of our computers, and we don't allow it just as we don't allow other harmful behaviors such as swearing or fighting in the Children's Room. Please see www.oppl.org for our computer "Acceptable Use" policies. --Heather McCammond-Watts, Manager of Children's Services at OPPL
- Attachments:
-
-
Oak_Lawn_Report.pdf, 249 KB
-
-
Permalink Reply by Dee Brennan on
-
Paul, thank you for raising it. I wish I had a solution - It certainly is a larger problem than the library. Thanks for all your kind words about our staff and services.
Paul Marobella said:Everyone,
Thank you so much for the lively discussion and debate regarding this important issue. Especially, our library officials, Dee and Heather - thank you for your quick and thoughtful responses, the power of social media coming through.
First, I'd like to say that we think the people at the library do an amazing job and are huge advocates of the library here in Oak Park. In fact, it was an important factor as to why we moved here almost 4-years ago. We are always impressed with the innovation and the professionalism of the staff. Per my wife, Andy also handled the situation the best he could given the parameters of the library rules - so no knock on him for how it went down, that day.
This topic we are discussing goes beyond Oak Park. It doesn't take long for one on Google to find the expanse and complexity of this topic all the way to the Federal-level and dividing states and even librarians on the issue. Some libraries have implemented filtering software and some haven't. And, if I read this right, it seems the Feds have made filtering software mandatory for libraries that accept Federal funding for computers, so clearly they see the issue as important. It is a hot-button topic that raises Constitutional questions of freedom of access, information and even free speech in some regards.
We understand the rational argument of censorship, government intervention and morality-compassing and on and on. And, with that said, I can tell you that I've been called many things but a prude has never been one of them - this issue wouldn't ever have been on my radar if my 6-year old wasn't in the proximity of a hard core porn act in clear view for her to see. As a parent, the specter of having to explain to her what that 'lady is doing to that man' supersedes my concerns about censorship. Sorry, but that is how I feel and frankly how many of the parents I've spoken with since this happened. In fact, the unscientific poll we've taken since then has indicated that most parents 'assumed' the library had filters and can't understand why it wouldn't - ESPECIALLY in the kids' area. These are Oak Park taxpayers, educated, techno-savvy, some that also work in IT people that are shocked, horrified and terrified of that fact.
But that's what makes our Country great - that we are able to maintain our own opinions and act accordingly. I am sure that our library officials have spent many hours, conferences and meetings discussing this topic and have made their professional decision to not go that route - I respect that, but do not agree with it, again, as it relates to the kid's section of the library.
I am not the militant, activist or protester-type of citizen and therefore this is where it ends for me/us. I want to thank Becca for curating LHOP that gives us as taxpayers a place where we can voice our concerns and have a healthy dialog with the officials and executives of our Village.
Happy New Year.
-
PioneerPermalink Reply by Dave! on -
I had assumed the library had filters, but it doesn't bother me one bit that they don't. The fact is, as others have said, the filters simply do not work. Anyone working in IT should understand they don't work. Anyone working in IT who is horrified to find out they don't work is someone I'd never hire to work in IT. Filters are a great tool for teaching teens to be creative in getting to content we don't want them to see, but it doesn't take a computer whiz to bypass them. They also present a challenge for those who want to look at content (not hard core porn, obviously) which might be objectionable to some but not to others. Sure, it's easy to say that a 13 year old shouldn't be looking at porn in the kids section, but what about a 20 year old reading erotic literature in the adult section? I'm sure some would find that objectionable, while others would not. And clearly, if the kid was 12 or so, he shouldn't have been using the computers in the kids section in the first place.
I've always found the staff at the library (and the branch library) in Oak Park to be top notch. I trust that when they see this (or when a patron sees it and reports it) that they will shut it down immediately and (hopefully) speak to the offender to explain the problem. I'm with OPPL. I don't want them to waste the library's precious money on filtering software that 1) doesn't work and 2) is doing the job parents are supposed to be doing. You're right, the Internet is frought with dangers, as parents, we have to watch our own kids and we can help by reporting things like that as soon as we see them. But I don't think rallying around wasting the library's money on things that just don't work is a good way to accomplish anything for the kids.
Advertisements
Promote Your Local Business
You too can advertise on Live Here Oak Park. Contact us for details or visit our advertising page.
Become a Fan or a Follower!
Subscribe Via RSS
Add Live Here Oak Park to your RSS reader.
Get Live Here Oak Park delivered via e-mail!
There are three different types of feeds available for e-mail delivery. Subscribe to one or all three so you never miss a thing on Live Here Oak Park.
Blog posts
Discussion forum
Recent activity feed
© 2012 Created by Becca.
